Do you ever wake up and think well here it is, the day everyone finally discovers how much of an impostor you are at playing this thing called life? Like it’s something everyone but you managed to figure out and all your spinning plates are about to come crashing down? I sure do and lately particularly when it comes to my job. My God, I often think, why on earth do these people continue to pay me when I have no idea what I’m doing?
Luckily these thoughts don’t take up permanent residence in my head as they once did. I am also pretty sure that absolutely nobody has Life 101 down 100%, which makes me laugh at my own Why-Me-Itus hyperbole in more reflective moods. This term by the way comes from an outstanding post on elihu’s corner on the harmful effects of comparing ourselves to others. Give it a good read, it’s well worth your time.
For me and perhaps others, this at the abyss feeling speaks to insecurities about not measuring up. For years I lived with this mindset, always feeling deeply flawed. Not likeable enough, not pretty enough, not smart enough, not funny enough, just,….never enough. Needless to say, I didn’t value myself much during those times and felt very empty.
What is value anyway? We value items for their benefits but we value people because of how much we care for them and for the simple fact that they were created by God. At least that’s how it’s supposed to work, but things get all twisted up when we look to those people and things to fill up our emptiness.
Unfortunately, I’ve done this, many times. The irony was that the people and things I was grasping at for validation only made me feel worse. The shine always wore off new things, trips never went as planned and people always disappointed me, while the hole in my life seemed to get bigger. This continued for many years until I finally turned to God to fill it up.
Since doing things the easy way was never my style, this process took a long and painful time. I resisted, kicked and screamed the whole way until finally I realized the ridiculousness of blaming my misery and the world’s ailments on a God I didn’t even believe in. That was my light bulb moment and God used its opening to show me myself through His eyes and realize the enormous value He assigns to me.
For the sake of brevity I will say this came about via many books, people and sermons showing up at exactly the right time, one proverbial scale dropping after another. The long version is for another blog post, probably several.
The point is nothing will ever take the place of God in your life and it’s a dangerous road to believe otherwise. We may love and enjoy people and things (and we may even not), but without God as your anchor, your primary motivation becomes about clinging to the perceived fulfillment of emotional needs they provide. Your best interest becomes secondary and you begin valuing people like material goods and the benefits they can bring. Not good for them, not good for you.
This all ties in to how we feel about ourselves and is where things get tricky. Shame, embarrassment and fear built up over the years can eat away at your self worth and create self-loathing. Whether it’s from things you did, or things done to you, this constant assault on your spirit warps your thinking about God and how you feel about yourself and others.
This gummed up wiring can trip you up in many ways; I know it certainly did for me. We start believing the lie that we have no value and that our flaws are so great no one could possibly love us. Many poor choices are made in attempt to “fix” things, one is layered on top of the other until the bondage becomes too difficult to break away from.
Life then becomes about feeding the false idol whatever it may be; fear of disapproval, the need to feel wanted and loved, an intense belief in “your way”, your looks, political ideology, athletic ability, career, etc…It could be anything and once you put it above God, you become a prisoner to preserving it.
We were never intended to live like this. God loves and values us beyond reason and wants nothing more than for us to drop our barriers and seek Him out. It’s in our wiring to do this you know and this constant searching for fulfillment will not stop until we do.
And when you do, you will find yourself not caring a whit about those spinning plates crashing to the ground and whether your faults become exposed. You see it’s your authentic, God given self that emerges from this; where true freedom is found as your ego and pride go, poof.
Do I live this? Not every day, not by a long shot, but I do know my value as a loved and purposeful child of God and that can never be taken away. My hope and prayer is for you to realize this too.
“Yes, my soul, find rest in God; My hope comes from Him; Truly He is my rock and salvation; He is my fortress, I will not be shaken.” Psalm 62:5-6 
Freedom Through Empowerment 
……..”Not like able enough, not pretty enough, not smart enough, not funny enough, just,….never enough.” None of these things you thought of yourself are true and never have been! In all the time I’ve known you Tricia and having worked with you I can dispute every word. If not I would not have kept in touch with you all these years and shared life stories with you. You are one of the most talented, smart, honest, funny and pretty ladies I have had the pleasure of knowing. I hope we remain friends to the end of our days.
I cannot expound on your personnel life in finding God and believing in Him. I think we all do in our own way. As long as you find solace in your beliefs that is all that matters. Stay your course and you will find your true meaning in life.
A great sense of humor and the ability to shrug things off helps a lot. If we can laugh at our own mistakes then no one can harm us no matter what they say or do. Of course I have found that being 6’3″ and 200 lbs helps too but I don’t think you can aspire to that goal. Best your pretty and smart and funny! We all have our niche!
If you ever find yourself slipping into the aforementioned thinking then by all means call me! I’ll get you out of those doldrums in a hurry! Your a treasure to me and I value your friendship more then you know.
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Thanks Dennis. I always appreciate your perspective and value our friendship. It’s also always nice having a 6’3″ 200lb friend in your corner. 🙂
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Ahh, that was just beautiful. So well said. I used to say I was juggling, trying to keep so many plates spinning in the air. God and I had a bit of a power struggle over it, but once I let go and allowed them all to come crashing down, I wondered what took me so long. Pride is really a heavy burden to bear. It’s tricky too, because I had the kind of pride that lurks in the shadows. It’s shy and withdrawn, it doesn’t feel like pride, but it is.
I like what you said here, “It could be anything and once you put it above God, you become a prisoner to preserving it.” It reminds me of Matthew 10:37-39. “Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”
Those are some harsh words, but there is great love behind them. What we hang onto too tightly, even our own families, can come between us and Christ. We can loose everything, even our loved ones, but He is our rock, He is with us always. That can be a scary thought at first, but actually it creates security, an anchor for our lives that is unshakeable.
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Thanks IB, I really appreciate your words and it’s nice to know someone else has had to deal with plates crashing down around them! I think women tend to have issues with this more often, we always feel like everything has to be just so.
Pride IS such a heavy burden as you say and something I didn’t realize how tightly I hung on to it until pretty recently. I still struggle to be honest. But you’re right the security of Christ provides an unshakeable anchor.
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@Tricia
Thanks for the post. Well done.
First a bit of humor. When I was in college, I used to take breaks from the books by juggling tennis balls. Much safer than plates. What a mess I would have made if I had tried plates! It’s a marvel you could keep plates up for any time at all — but for years!
Now something more serious. In the Old Testament, there is a commandment against coveting what belongs to others. Why do I mention it? Some say the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament are different Gods. We need to remind ourselves that God does not change. We need to remember that even in the Old Testament our Lord told us, for our own sake, that we should avoid comparing ourselves with others.
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Tom, that IS funny about the tennis balls! Hmmm, definitely much safer than plates, perhaps I should swap them out. Seems most of mine have smashed anyway…
Thanks for the reminder about not coveting what belongs to others. It’s very true, very timely and easy to forget. Thanks for coming by too.
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“Some say the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament are different Gods.”
Frankly it’s my belief that the pre-Moses god is a different god from the post-Moses god.
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So?
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“Some say the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament are different Gods.”
So?
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😆
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“In the Old Testament, there is a commandment against coveting what belongs to others.”
You know, I always found it strange that a god would order people not to covet, then tell them that after they finished writing down the commandments, to pop over to Palestine, kill all of the Canaanites, and take their land away from them.
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You don’t know what you don’t know Arch and it plainly shows. Perhaps God thinks you are strange as well, in fact I’m sure of this! 😉
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“You don’t know what you don’t know Arch” – Doesn’t that also apply to those who might believe themselves omniscient? How would they know if there was something they didn’t know?
“Perhaps God thinks you are strange as well, in fact I’m sure of this!” – Although you are likely a more delicate one, I am just as much a snowflake as you are – to quote “The Little Prince,” ‘unique in all the world’ – just like everyone else!
I realize that the internet is intended to be as anonymous as we wish it to be – and I wouldn’t have it otherwise – but I would be fascinated to hear the story to which you’ve intimated, of how you once were not religious, but now are. You have my email address, if you’d ever like to share that privately.
Now ‘Hi Ho, Hi Ho,’ and drive safely —
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But you’re the only kicking up sand and again going way completely off the subject rails.
I will have to say being lectured to about anonymity by an Internet gravitar is a new one for me. Thanks for the chuckle…
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Lecture? I don’t call it a lecture, I call it an offer to talk, one one on one.
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Look up what the Canaanites worshiped.
Have you ever wondered why the Romans hated Carthage? There was more to it than simple rivalry. Canaanites founded the city, and they worshiped there too.
After the Romans conquered Carthage, they did not adopt the Canaanite gods. That was not their unusual procedure
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“Look up what the Canaanites worshiped.”
Why?
If Exodus is telling the truth – and I suspect we would disagree on that – 2/3 of the entire population of 3.5 million people were Jews who followed Moses into a 40-year exile. If what the Canaanites worshiped was an issue, shouldn’t what the Egyptians worshiped have been an issue as well? Why did Moses take his people and flee Egypt if, according to Exodus and the findings of archaeology, the Jews vastly outnumbered the Egyptians, didn’t Moses and his people simply take over Egypt, kill all of the men, and turn it into a Jewish nation?
Actually, Carthage was basically Phoenician, and the Phoenicians were the sea-faring merchant offshoot of the Canaanites, worshiping Baal-hamon, at no point in the history of Rome was a people attacked because of what their religion was or was not, unless that religion violated the laws of Rome, and Carthage, not being a part of the Roman Empire, could have worshiped Micky Mouse and Rome wouldn’t have given a fig – the main cause of the Punic Wars was the conflicts of interest between the existing Carthaginian Empire and the expanding Roman Republic, and had absolutely nothing to do with the religion of either culture.
Do you actually think before you write? Or do you simply believe that others are going to automatically accept everything you say?
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@arch
Dodging the issue, I see. Look up how the Canaanites worshiped Molech, Moloch, or Milcom. Same idol. Different names.
Archaeologists have found evidence that the Carthaginians worshiped Molech.
Egypt gods? Well, they weren’t what the Canaanites worshiped. However, Egypt did suffer ten plagues.
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“Archaeologists have found evidence that the Carthaginians worshiped Molech.” – I’ve found no evidence of that – as I said, Ba`al Hammon was the primary god of Carthage. If you have evidence to the contrary, please cite your sources.
Plutarch alleges the practice of child sacrifice, as did Tertullian, Orosius, Philo and Diodorus Siculus. However, Herodotos and Polybius do not. The few Carthaginian texts which have survived make absolutely no mention of child sacrifice.
But even so, in your own words, “So what?” The Greek and Roman critics, according to Charles Picard, objected not to the killing of children but to the religious nature of it. As in both ancient Greece and Rome, inconvenient children were commonly killed by exposure to the elements. This is certainly not a cause worth committing a nation to war.
“Egypt gods? Well, they weren’t what the Canaanites worshiped.”
Who’s “Dodging the issue” now? My point, in the event that it slipped your mind, was that your god, who allegedly told his people not to covet, ordered them to commit genocide and confiscate their neighbor’s land, which I would have to call the epitome of coveting.
My reference to Egypt was that if a difference in which gods a people worshiped was a reason to commit genocide, the Jews, with a 2-1 majority over the Egyptians, had a better chance of wresting territory from Egypt, rather than exiting with their tails between their legs, but you seemed to have dodged that issue as well.
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Arch, just stop, you’re not even absorbing what CT is saying and you’re just talking over him in your responses.
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Could it possibly be that you’re not absorbing what I’m saying?
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How could anybody? You write a novel in response to a simple comment and frankly I don’t have time to read through them all. Based on selective skimming though they appear to be the same gibberish you post any blog having the slightest bit to do with religion.
Normally I’d delete a lot of what you wrote as you’ve gone way, way off course to the central meaning of this post and were pretty disrespectful to Citizen Tom. His responses to you though were such an outstanding example of someone who has the spirit and wisdom of Christ in him, I felt it important for readers to see the comparison between yours and his.
Really now time to turn the page on this.
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“You write a novel in response to a simple comment and frankly I don’t have time to read through them all.”
Theists have the advantage of brevity by saying, “The Bible is true because the Bible says it’s true.” Those of us who challenge baseless assertions are required to provide reasons.
(I hope this comment was sufficiently brief –)
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@arch
So what? If you don’t believe in sin, what is your problem with genocide?
Even if you don’t object, God has a problem with people who sacrifice their babies to red-hot idols, and the Romans did not like it either. It is cold-blooded murder of the innocent by people who…. Any parent who would so deliberately kill their own child is evil.
Google these words together: Carthage child sacrifice. Whatever you want to call what the people of Carthage worship, they sacrifice their children to it.
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So true what you say Tom but it doesn’t matter to Arch. He will just go back and forth forever. Like I said, appreciate your fine words, they provide a great comparison when looking at others “dead” remarks.
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“Carthage child sacrifice. Whatever you want to call what the people of Carthage worship, they sacrifice their children to it.”
I already responded to that yesterday, I’m sorry you didn’t read it. I suggest you scroll up.
Interesting thing about Christians – they’re big about telling the rest of us that we can’t be moral without the Bible. The funny thing was, when Paul came along, telling his recruits that they didn’t have to follow a thousand years of Jewish law, he was told that Christians couldn’t possibly be moral without following Jewish law. I’ve always found that amusing.
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Ten plagues? The only thing we know about ten plagues, has been the account in Exodus, which has been established as having been written not earlier than the 7th/6th century BCE, while Moses, for whom there is no archeological or historical evidence, was alleged to have lived in the area of 1500 BCE.
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Frankly, the Bible is evidence. So are the traditions of the Jews. Given the nature of the plagues, there is not much reason to believe that after thousands of years we would be able to find any direct evidence. So that leaves us with what the Egyptians would have recorded. Why would the Egyptians, especially the ruling class, have wanted to record about that experience?
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“Frankly, the Bible is evidence. So are the traditions of the Jews.”
Here are some of those traditions of the Jews – you might actually find it interesting: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/metabook?id=lotj
“So that leaves us with what the Egyptians would have recorded.” – You wouldn’t happen to have a link to those records, would you?
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Correction: “not their usual procedure.”
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“For years I lived with this mindset, always feeling deeply flawed.” – That’s not surprising, considering that that’s what the Abrahamic religions teach. Personally, I can’t imagine how you could ever think you’re not attractive.
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Well, thank you Arch for the compliment. For the record, my insecurities started long before I became schooled on any sort of religion. It’s only after I turned to God did they begin to disappear.
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I couldn’t help noticing you live in San Diego. I used to have a corner office with an ocean view in La Jolla, after which, I worked out of what is now the B of A Financial Center on W. Broadway. San Diego is a clean city, but most of all, I loved driving home to my place on the beach in Baja. I could just feel the tension melting off every mile I drove, until finally the Pacific filled my field of view and I knew I was home. Weekend mornings on my balcony were always a treat, as over coffee, I could watch dolphins feeding literally across the street about ten every morning. I miss those days.
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Wow Arch, I didn’t know you spent time out in my neck of the woods, er ocean. That’s cool! I’ve been to Baja any times too, just beautiful. I know what you mean about the ocean melting away tension. It’s why I say here, keeps me sane. 😉
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As you drive West from Tia Juana to Ensenada, just before you curve south, you can see a tiny town right on the ocean – (you can easily see the bull ring right next to the border fence) – that’s where I lived, 325 Paseo del Pacifico. The happiest five years of my life.
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I used to smoke in those days – as you can see, I had just washed my face and couldn’t do a thing with it —
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Looks like the 70’s based on your suit and tie, lol
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Ouch! No, it was much more recent than that!
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Oh no, I was only kidding Arch! I’m sorry. 🙂
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Lol!
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It takes a lot more than that to hurt my feelings.
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Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
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Many thanks Vince. 🙂
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You’re very welcome Tricia!
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Our associate pastor spoke on this very subject this morning!!! I wish I had a reblog feature! I would reblog this immediately! It is something the world needs to hear.
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Well thanks Rolling blogger, I appreciate your feedback!
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This post will touch many spirits and hearts.
Pressure, anxiety and stress are INTERNAL emotions. We are responsible for these feelings that we often blame others for causing. In moments of clarity, we need to recognize self doubt, self blame and self insecurities show the person responsible for these feelings. It is the “SELF.”
I have found a relationship with god gives each of us better insight and understanding who we are. I believe God provides a guiding force to help direct us if we are willing to ask for guidance. Guidance is NOT a sign of weakness; it is an understanding that experience can help us achieve the goals we desire more efficiently.
We are humans with frailties, insecurities and imperfections, but the biggest errors we make are using these realities to degrade ourselves. We must finish the sentence by recognizing humans also possess kindness, compassion, love, understanding, support and so many other POSITIVE attributes that remain hidden under the pile of self destruction. Recognizing this reality frees us from this self imposed bondage allowing the best in us to expose itself. I believe this relationship with God shows us our true strengths and values and helps all of us grow and develop over time.
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So many great words you say here Jonathan, I should just copy and paste them in to a new post. 🙂 I very much agree we need to recognize our frailties and that God provides so much direction and insight here. I once thought it was the epitome of weakness to admit faults, let alone take a hard look at how they got there and what to do to overcome them.
Recognizing the kindness, compassion, love and understanding of others is also instrumental and ‘m so glad you brought this up. Thank you for this insightful comment and continued support of this blog.
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Yeah trish, could you imagine the board room meetings @ Madison ave regarding ‘value and self worth……………’ the industry survives on image, and the appeal to value as something that can be purchased.
I appreciate the not so subtle ways that ‘death’ is presented as the last frontier, with ad after ad of ‘staying younger’ ‘living longer,’ ha, as if Ponds cold cream can hold back the coffin 😉
But your contrast with He who says we are of more value…………..than many sparrows……….is spot on, and God likes birds. How much more then………….
Your value and self worth idea, is wrapped up in the scripture at the bottom. Rock. Fortress. We need only think that greater love hath no man than this, than a man lay down his life for his friends.
Not sure bout you, but I would be hesitant to lay down my life for my friends………..yet God showed a more excellent way. He gave His life……………….for friends and enemies alike………..talk about love.
Ha, speak about worth!!! Indeed He is worthy. And yep, as a result, we learn of our true wealth. Good stuff T.
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“He gave His life……………….for friends and enemies alike”
Question, CS – how can you give your life when you know you’re immortal?
“………..talk about love.”
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Hey arch-
Talk to me about love when you are ‘taken by wicked hands and crucified……………and slain…….for doing NOTHING amiss.’
Talk to me of love when you can completely and perfectly forgive they who did such things.
‘God loves and values us beyond reason…………………’ as the host states in the post.
But I have seen your ‘cut and paste’ artwork of this that you repeated elsewhere. Just a bit of proof that some folks do not understand the love of God.
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In the 1600’s the Religious Right hung and burned innocent men and women as witches and warlocks, who did ‘NOTHING amiss.’ According to commentary written 40-70 years after the fact, if it was a fact, by men who weren’t there, Yeshua ben Yuseph was executed by the Religious Right of the time for blasphemy, which was considered a crime among devout Jews, just as it is in Muslim nations today. For how many deaths of the innocent has a belief in a religion been responsible? And those people hadn’t the comfort of a belief that they would be resurrected in three days!
“Talk to me of love when you can completely and perfectly forgive they who did such things.”
You have no knowledge that anyone did this, other than the words of men written 40-70 years after the fact, if it was a fact, by men who weren’t there, but were relying on hearsay from others who likely weren’t there either.
“Just a bit of proof that some folks do not understand the love of God.”
Exactly what part of that wasn’t true, according to your scriptures? Do you not believe that hell was created for those who chose not to love your god back? If not, they why else? I’m content with the belief that there IS no hell, but if you insist on believing that there IS one, OTHER than a place reserved for those who choose not to follow the dictates – written by men – of what they believed their god wanted, what other purpose would you say that the creation of a hell served?
Please have the courage and the courtesy to give an intelligent answer. I KNOW you can do it – I have faith —
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Arch, once again you are confusing religion with God and blaming him for the acts of fallen men. I understand this reasoning as that was my mindset for a long time and it’s impossible for any human to penetrate that calcified fortress, which is why you continue to bristle at any suggestion of a Creator. Put down your false idol of logic and need to be right and let God’s wisdom creep in to your soul. He will never disappoint
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It always amazes me that the religious can’t see the dichotomy – the only ‘knowledge,’ if it can be called that, that they have of their god are the words of those to whom they admittedly refer as ‘fallen men’ – yet if those men are so fallible, how can anyone accept that their claims can be trusted? They dodge this issue by claiming that scripture is ‘god-breathed,’ and yet that claim was also made by equally quite fallible men! It simply boggles the mind that none of you seems to see this, or is it because it would cause just too much cognitive dissonance?
The oldest writing in the Bible dates back to 1000 BCE, and the most recent, to shortly after the first century CE – this means that all things within those covers falls within the range of being between 3000 and 2000 years old. We would laugh at many of the words of Hippocrates describing how “humors” govern the workings of the human body, simply because we realize how much humankind has learned about medicine since then, yet some choose to believe every word of an equally ancient – and antiquated – book.
At least you, Trish, have the intellect required to intelligently discuss such things, Colorstorm seems to lack even that.
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Ah, but Arch, we can see the dichotomy, at least anyone who believes deep down in God can. No one who does hasn’t struggled with and fought this seemingly glaring contradiction. The thing is when you start to study the matter, pray on it and absorb the deep knowledge of others who have walked this path, you start to see the logic behind it and then another stronghold against God goes down and thus more wisdom is granted and the small mustard seed begins to shoot up. Faith broadens, love increases and truth becomes obvious. It’s impossible to explain to you, I know, you have to live it but you also have to be willing to let your guard down. Perhaps start with exploring why, in your own words, you haven’t been happy since that time many years ago living in Baja. Just a thought…
ColorStorm doesn’t go down the debate rabbit hole with you because it’s pointless. You refuse to contemplate the deeper points he makes in his posts (which I know you are capable of) and instead take cheap, unnecessary shots meant at distraction. And, let’s be honest here, you are more than a bit obnoxious with your comments to him. I’m surprised honestly he hasn’t booted you off his blog. Perhaps God has tasked him to take you under his wing…now wouldn’t that be a hoot!
Enjoy your day Arch, I’m off to work.
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“It’s impossible to explain to you, I know, you have to live it” – Ah, but I HAVE lived it, but as my knowledge increased the whole thing began to dissolve like a sugarcube castle in the rain.
“Perhaps start with exploring why, in your own words, you haven’t been happy since that time many years ago living in Baja.”
You’re putting words in my mouth dear lady – I said that those were the happiest days of my life, NOT that I haven’t been happy since! Think about it, if every day of your life was as happy as the one before it, how would you know the difference? Some period HAS to be the happiest period of your life, that’s how it works for everyone, even the religious.
Who wishes to be empty?
Drive safely —
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“Enjoy your day Arch, I’m off to work.”
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@arch
Should we judge all Atheists by the works of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot, and all those tyrant Atheists? Why not? That is what you do to Christians. Is everyone who slaps the label on himself truly practicing what Jesus Christ taught. Should I lump you in the same category with a mass murderer just so I have a lame excuse to trash your beliefs?
You want to play that silly game you will lose. The historical record is quite clear. While the number of people systematically murdered in the name of Christianity is fairly large, the numbers stuffed in concentration camps by atheist regimes dwarfs anything so-called Christians ever attempted. Christians, in the name of Christ, stopped the religious wars hundreds of years of ago. The atheists, on the other hand, never called a truce.
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Clearly you missed the point entirely, CT, which isn’t surprising. CS was writing about ‘poor little Jesus’ who was murdered – I was pointing out that Jesus was executed by the Religious Right of his time for what they considered a crime, just as men and women were executed in medieval times as warlocks and witches by the Religious Right of that time.
And BTW – Hitler was no atheist:
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@arch
Missed the point? That’s always possible I suppose, but you may wish to reconsider your own reasoning. For reasons that should be obvious, depending upon Hitler to have told the truth doesn’t work.
When Hitler killed millions, whose teachings was he following? Jesus was a Jew. His apostles were Jews. So it is Christian to kill Jews? Did Jesus preach race warfare? Yet Hitler was adamant about killing off the inferior races. Any Christian who thinks the Jews are an inferior race is profoundly ignorant, and Hitler wasn’t that.
You may wish to check out the relationship between Nietzsche and Hitler. Of course, what Hitler did to Nietzsche’s philosophy probably stretched the truth too, but some atheists have little regard for the truth.
Who killed Jesus? The Pharisees constituted what I guess you would call the Religious Right. The Sadducees would have been the “Religious” Left. Unlike the Pharisees, the Sadducees did not believe in life after death. The Sadducees also made up the majority on the Sanhedrin, the Jewish Council that tried Jesus.
What about Pontius Pilate? Was he a Conservative, a member of the Religious Right? I suppose it is possible he was trying to restore the Roman Republic. That would have been the Conservative thing for a Roman to do, but I don’t know of any evidence to that effect.
Pontius Pilate is most famous for asking “what is truth?” and then walking away from the Truth. Like the Sadducees, it seems Pilate was more interested in politics than he was God.
Instead of trying to blame anyone in particular for killing Jesus, you may wish to blame sinners. If, as an atheist you don’t believe in sin (and you don’t believe you sin), then you can “comfortably” blame Christians for killing Jesus. After all, Christians admit they are sinners, and we believe Jesus died for our sins.
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Phew Tom, I sit in awe over your words. Thank you for the value you add to my blog with your comments.
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Thank you. I don’t know what else to say.
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🙂
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“Did Jesus preach race warfare?” – Not that I’m aware of, but we have no idea what Yeshua preached, as the earliest accounts of him weren’t written until 40 years after his death by anonymous authors who never met him. However his alleged Daddy did – according to the Tanakh, the Jewish god commanded the genocide of the Canaanites, the Jebusites, the Amalakites, and a number of others, with whose orders the Jews willingly complied, even to the extent of ripping open the bellies of pregnant women and killing their unborn babies. So if you are one of those who believes that Yeshua was Yahweh incarnate – and I suspect you are – then the answer to your question is “Yes.”
The Sadducees were comprised of Jerusalem’s elite – the wealthy, the educated. The Pharisees were what would today be considered the blue-collared. Though the Sadducees held the majority of seats in the Sanhedrin, history indicates that much of the time they had to go along with the ideas of the Pharisaic minority, because the Pharisees were popular with the masses, so your point there is moot.
Pilot’s conservatism is irrelevant, as it would have owed its allegiance to Rome, not to the adherents of the petty little religion to which the Jews, a subjugated race, subscribed.
Conservative Jews insisted on Yeshua’s death, according to the earliest account – as I say, written 40 years afterward – if the Yeshua story is to be believed, this is indisputable. The idea that Yeshua is Yahweh, and that Yeshua/Yahweh died as a sin offering to Yahweh/Yeshua, to allow humans to atone for “sins” that existed only because of laws issued by Yahweh/Yeshua for humans to follow, yet which Yahweh/Yeshua’s omniscience foretold that they would violate, is simply too absurd to even be considered.
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@arch
The notion the Pharisees pressured the Sadducees to to hate Jesus is funny, in a grim sort way.
Go back and read the what the Gospels say about how the authorities arrested Jesus. To avoid a riot, the authorities arrested Jesus at night. The Jewish leaders plotted Jesus’ death. No one forced them to kill Him.
What you are doing is cherry picking a few things out of both the Old and New Testaments and ignoring the rest of the Bible. Then, regardless of what I offer, my “evidence” is insufficient sway you. Yet you happily point to Bible as your primary source, even though you don’t believe it. If I had not once been of the same mind, I would find it profoundly puzzling how you could come up with such a mental contortion. As it is….
When God set the Hebrews against the Canaanites, what did that say about God? He hates sin. Because it hurts us, He hates sin. Because the Canaanites were growing more and more sinful and more and more miserable, He put them out of their misery. Don’t we do the same for dumb animals?
Since we all sin, God’s attitude towards it frightens us. Even in pain, an animal resists death. Yet the Old Testament promised a savior, one who would suffer for us, and Jesus died for our sins. If we are willing to accept redemption, God is willing to redeem us.
After what we have done to our own Constitution, you still have trouble believing that we cannot obey good laws, even laws we have made for our own protection. How obvious does it have to be before you will accept the simple fact we need to be rescued from our sinful nature?
Study the Bible. Pray. I know cannot persuade you. The best I can do is urge you to go to the Bible to “hone” your arguments. As it is, they look quite pathetic.
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“The notion the Pharisees pressured the Sadducees to to hate Jesus is funny, in a grim sort way.” – I didn’t say that, go back and reread what I said. Try following the text with your finger.
“Go back and read the what the Gospels say about how the authorities arrested Jesus.”
Which gospel would that be? The first one, written anonymously by an author later dubbed ‘Mark,’ who wrote 40 years after the alleged event, or the second one, written anonymously by an author later dubbed ‘Matthew,’ written 45-50 years after the alleged event and copied 90% of his entire gospel from pseudo-Mark, or the third one, written anonymously by an author dubbed ‘Luke,’ written 55-60 years after the alleged event, who copied 60+% of his work from pseudo-Mark, or possibly the anonymous author later dubbed ‘John,’ who wrote 50-55 years later – none of whom ever met the man about whom they wrote. Which of those “authorities” should I read, who weren’t there?
“When God set the Hebrews against the Canaanites, what did that say about God?” – It said that the Jews wanted to confiscate the land, and they used their imaginary god as an excuse to do it.
As for the rest, I don’t recognize ‘sin,’ as that is a term associated only with religion, which involves belief in magic, and I don’t. As for the Bible, I have studied it inside and out, and beyond to those who wrote the Bible, when, and why, and I have come to the conclusion that there is a little bit of embellished history within its covers, and a great deal of fabrication that religious leaders for the past three millennia have used to line their pockets and fill their bellies.
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@arch
You said what you said. And what you effectively said is that the Sadducees delivered Jesus up to be crucified, but it was the Pharisees’ fault. For some reason blaming the Pharisees is important to you.
John 11:45-57 explains how the Pharisees and Sadducees plotted together. I tend to think that explanation simple and sufficient.
It seems you expect me to attempt to convince you that the Bible is true. It also seems you expect me to be hurt and/or insulted by your remarks about the integrity of the Bible. Both expectations would be wrong. I know I cannot convince you the Bible is true. And your anger is simply misdirected. You are angry with God, not me.
So what I am doing? Most of the work of apologetics is done for the sake of believers, not unbelievers. It is people who believe who are truly curious about the Bible, not unbelievers. Therefore, when an angry atheist raises what appears to be a legitimate issue, some Christian is likely to consider the matter, and some like myself may even respond directly to the angry atheist.
Is when the Gospels were written and compiled in a finished form relevant? Is who authored them relevant? Yes and yes. So I expect I will study the matter a bit more than I have already and write a post on the subject.
What do I expect to find as the result of further research? Well, I suppose I should not prejudice the results. However, what I have already read indicates the scholars don’t actually know when the Gospels were written. What they have are “educated” guesses. So my only expectation is that I will learn more about basis for their “educated” guesses.
What about who wrote the Gospels? Well, if the scholars don’t have definitive evidence as to when the Gospels were written…..
Yet there you are making angry declarations. How do you know with such certainty what the “experts” can only speculate about? You were there? Right?
So you don’t recognize “sin”? Well, if you don’t recognize the existence of God, that is somewhat reasonable. However, the definition of “sin” also covers “any act regarded as such a transgression, especially a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle.” Do you have any moral principles that you would consider it “evil” to violate? How do regard the concepts of good and evil?
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I would love to respond to you Tom, but I’ve been warned that I’m expected to limit the size of my explanations on this blog, and I find I can’t express myself freely under those circumstances, but I can assure you that I am no more angry at your god than I am at unicorns or Leprechauns.
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The term is shadow boxing with yourself.
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I think you’re a good person, Tricia – you’re not going to make me argue with you.
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No one is making you argue with anyone Arch. You bring it on yourself you know, but I think you know that.
There’s a good person there inside of you too. God did bring you in to existence for a reason ya know…;)
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I strongly suspect – but this is just a hunch now – that it had a lot more to do with what my Mom and Dad did nine months prior to my birth.
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“Is when the Gospels were written and compiled in a finished form relevant? Is who authored them relevant? Yes and yes. So I expect I will study the matter a bit more than I have already and write a post on the subject. ”
Be sure and read only those sources that agree with your preconceived opinions, otherwise the cognitive dissonance could make your head explode, and Tricia would blame me for that.
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@arch
I will leave you with a couple thoughts.
1. You don’t like Christianity, but I have yet to see you offer up anything that could positively replace it. So what is your point?
2. There is actually quite of bit of hostility in your behavior. Why? Well, it is not that hard to figure out.You don’t believe. Apparently, you think Christianity is all about hating you, which is silly. What Jesus taught is about hate? What the Bible says is about hate? No and no. God calls us all sinners, not just you exclusively. It is our sins, that thing you deny, that God hates.
Anyway, there is a point of diminishing returns, where the value gained is not worth the effort expended. Rather than presuming further advantage of Tricia, I will move on.
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I regret, Thomas, that I am limited to what I think of as Tricia’s Twitter – 140 characters or less.
“1. You don’t like Christianity, but I have yet to see you offer up anything that could positively replace it.”
I’ve never said I didn’t like Christianity or any other fairy tale. No need to replace it with anything. (105 characters)
“2. There is actually quite of bit of hostility in your behavior.”
If there is, and I maintain there isn’t, it might be there are those out there trying to create a theocracy based on legends and tall tales. (140 characters)
“What Jesus taught is about hate? What the Bible says is about hate?”
Yes and yes, but I can’t extrapolate in 140 characters or less. Ask Yeshua about the fig tree that declined to produce fruit out of season. (139 characters – whew!)
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Stop blaming your inability to make a well reasoned and proper comment on my leashing you up. My God, just take a quick look at the comments here and see who dominates the pages. Hint, rhymes with Barchaeopteryx1.
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Appreciate you sticking around this long Tom. 😉 And you’re right, hostility always comes from a place of non belief and when you shake a stick at it, well, you know what happens.
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Ha, so true ColorStorm about Madison Avenue! Such a far away place from God with their constant denial of aging/death and false imagery. And it has to be said that they sure have not helped with insecurity issues by creating such false and unobtainable worlds that we too can he for the low price of $$$.
Good point too about love and sacrifice CS. Yup, I too would be hesitant to lay down my life but God did indeed do this for all of us, even Arch. 😉
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I suppose a simple, ‘Thanks, Big Guy,’ wouldn’t entirely fulfill my obligation —
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It’s a good start….;)
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What an interesting post. Every time I go down the road of introspection, I am found wanting. I guess it’s like a car tune-up, checking out all the parts to find out why we’re sputtering instead of running smoothly. It’s probably not all bad, but you are right, it can send us down a false path where we decide “if I just fix this, life will be fine.” Problem is, once we fix the emotional carburetor, the transmission (body) starts giving out.
Seriously, everyone must find their way through this. For many people it is turning their life over to their God, however they perceive him/her to be. But there is another solution. Live your life by the golden rule. That’s what we humanists believe. There will still be bad days and good days. But we will be content in knowing that we lived that day in the best possible way we could.
Again, this was a wonderful post and judging by the comments, you got your readers thinking. As for the comparing of oneself to others, the Desiderata has a take on this also, as well as many other good suggestions about living life. http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~gongsu/desiderata_textonly.html
Have a wonderful day in sunny San Diego!
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Agreed, Al!
“As for the comparing of oneself to others” – Tricia is as unique as a snowflake, and her only obligation is to be the best Tricia she can be.
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Have never met Tricia, but I can tell we are kindred souls.
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We’ve only cyber-met, but she’s a sweet lady.
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Ok, stop already, you guys are making me blush….
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I’m sure red’s a nice color on you.
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— attested by the fact that she tolerates me —
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You keep testing my tolerance limits though Arch…
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Without testing our limits, how do we know what we can do? You’re welcome!
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I do believe we are Al as well Al!
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Al I always appreciate your perspective so much, as I never fail to learn something from it. I like your humor too. 🙂
True too that everyone must find their own way. And I know plenty of Humanists who most certainly do live by the golden rule as you seem to do.
Thanks for the link, I’ll be sure to check it out.!
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